Shattered. Lost. Then Love, with Kerisma Vere | Ship's Log #32

"Be the change you seek in the world." - Gandhi (paraphrased, as submitted by guest) 

 Episode Summary 

Kerisma Vere didn't arrive at her work in holistic wellness coaching through a degree program or a tidy career pivot. She arrived through the long way — through a full nervous breakdown in 2018 that left her unable to remember who she was, unable to cook, unable to leave the house. She describes it like a brain injury: the person who had relied on her mind to get through everything suddenly had no access to any of it. 

What followed was years of rebuilding — a relapse, emergency surgery when her colon ruptured, and a slow, non-linear climb back toward functioning. By early 2024, she says, she finally reached a place of genuine stability. Not the conditional stability she'd built before — tied to eighty pounds lost, a fitness routine, a coaching business, a marriage — but something quieter and more durable: a relationship with herself that doesn't depend on what she's doing or producing. 

 That's the heart of what Kerisma teaches: that real change doesn't come from pushing harder or setting the bar at perfect. It comes from meeting yourself where you are, steering the bus with all your parts still on board, and understanding that the future you will inherit whatever mess the present you makes. Her Two Truths and a Lie revealed a twist on what it took to write her first book — and brought the whole conversation to a warm, funny close. 

 Guest Bio 

Kerisma Vere is a holistic wellness coach and author whose path through trauma, addiction, and mental health challenges became the foundation for her work. She's the author of The Light Switch Myth and its companion journal Ways I Showed Up for Myself, and the creator of the course From Pressure to Path. Her approach is non-prescriptive, compassionate, and built for real life — not the highlight reel. 

Guest Links 

Website:  https://towardswellness.ca/ 

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerisma-vere-a327428/ 

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/towards_wellness_coaching_/ 

Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/keri.vere 

YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/@KerismaVere 

TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@kerismavere 

Threads:  https://www.threads.com/@towards_wellness_coaching_ 

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Transcript

Introduction

Kerisma Vere 0:02

You know, I have that accessibility policy where I give free PDF copies of my books to anybody who can't afford it because I know what it's like not to have access to resources based on on your financial

Intro

Kerisma Vere 0:15

situation and stuff like that, right? So you play the two truths in a lie game. I often play the if I was in charge of the world game.

Jeanne Andersen 0:24

Welcome to Project Candor. I'm your host, Jeanne Andersen. This is the show where ordinary people share the unexpected stories that shaped who they are. Stories about turning points, about hard seasons, and about what it took to keep going. You're going to want to hear from today's guest. Our guest today is Kerisma Vere. Kerisma Vere is a holistic wellness coach and author whose work was shaped by navigating trauma, mental health challenges, and addiction firsthand. She turned those hard-won lessons into a philosophy of compassionate, non-prescriptive change, the kind that actually holds. She's the author of The Light Switch Myth and its companion journal, Ways I Showed Up for Myself, and the creator of the course From Pressure to Path. Kerisma welcome to the show. Thanks, Jeanne. It's so nice to be here. So the way we go is I first ask you some questions, then we transition to play our two truths and a lie, and then I'm ready to go with questions if you're ready. You betcha. Okay. You've described your path into this work as coming from lived experience rather than a textbook. Take me back to an earlier chapter of your life. What was it actually like to be in the thick of it before you had any of the language or framework you have now?

When Everything Fell Apart

Kerisma Vere 1:42

Okay, I sort of see um my life in in two parts. And one, there was the getting out of home finally and and sort of hitting the world and doing my best to survive and try to sort of work on work on things. And uh I I actually kind of got somewhere with that or so I had thought. And then and then everything came crashing down to me. And I had I had a pretty much a full nervous breakdown and discovered that uh I really had to become willing to do things differently. And so that was in 2018. And everything that I've learned since then is has been basically like, you know, enhanced what I already know, but it's it's so different. And you know, I can actually say that that that breakdown ended up being a breakthrough because I've learned things that I wouldn't trade, even though I I wish that those lessons had come along in an easier way. It's just that, yes, uh, my willingness to accept help, my my willingness to um put the relationship with myself first, and my understanding of unconditional self-worth and learning how to treat myself with unconditional love and and positive regard has taken the priority in my in my life and basically informed all of the work I do with other people and the books that I've written.

Jeanne Andersen 3:01

Okay. Well, I wasn't intending to ask you this question, but I joke a lot when I get under stress about, oh, I'm having a nervous breakdown. What does that feel like?

Kerisma Vere 3:11

Yeah, well, you know, I think we we've all, you know, been there a little bit, but you know, the difference for me in in when I'm referring to that as a breakdown, and like everything it like I literally shattered inside. And um I actually got um rather acute amnesia and couldn't remember really who I was, who had been. Like we draw on our experiences every single day, whether it's washing the dishes or interacting with with a loved one, like you know, the things that we've learned, the who we've been, how we got here all really plays a big part in how we move through the world. And I no longer had access to any of that. I wasn't really able to function, I wasn't able to go to the store. I didn't remember how to cook. Basically I could kind of get out of bed and and sit there all day. And I was uh I did manage to um do a few things to try to get some help and and that, but pretty much for like a a year and a half I was I used the word comatose because I my I had a flat affect, you know. I I couldn't even listen to music or anything like that. Having conversations with people was exceptionally difficult. My brain just was not working the way that it ever had, and I was in a state of panic pretty much 24-7 for for about sixteen months before I was able to bring it from like acute panic into like um acute anxiety, and then from anxiety we we brought it down a little bit more and and continued to heal. So I mean, I didn't know it at the time, but what had happened was um I had still been fairly dissociative up to that point in regards to the trauma that I had been through when I was younger, and it all came back and it flooded me and it did so in in such a way that as to completely overwhelm me. Um sometimes the way I describe it to people is a little bit like a brain injury, right? Because it's just and how somebody who had relied on using my brain to get me through everything, it was just like a whole new way of of of being. But yeah, it was my level of functioning was just not there, right? Like it was just not there. It took a an awful long time to rebuild from that place. So that that was why I called it a breakdown.

Jeanne Andersen 5:29

Well, that sounds like a breakdown of magnitude. So thanks for sharing that. But that took what I'm trying to count in my head, that was maybe th two and a half to three years.

Kerisma Vere 5:41

Well, it happened in 2018, and like yeah, the first year and a half was still rather intensely horrible. And um so and then uh I think it started to kind of progress from there. There was a relapse after the breakdown, there was a relapse, so that probably aggravated situations, but like that was kind of like the only way I knew how to cope with what was going on. So as I got help, I slowly were did the harm reduction approach to to um just slowly using um less of the substances and bringing in more of the healthy tools. And I I would actually say it was really probable. Like in 2023, I finally got um clean again, and my mental health had been getting better, but until I was actually able to to completely get clean again, it was still fairly problematic. And and then I I had emergency surgery with my my colon ruptured, and so that was rather traumatic and and it sort of actually made me dissociative again because it was so sudden and I almost died, and that took um three months of physical recovery and and probably closer to six months of um more mental emotional recovery from that. But later in um by the beginning of 2024, I was in a lot better condition than I had been in, and probably even better in a lot of ways compared to um before the breakdown, because now I had new tools, new understanding, and and had developed a new relationship with my um self. But yeah, things didn't really get they didn't really get stabilized mentally or emotionally until uh probably very early 2024.

Surviving Without a Safety Net

Jeanne Andersen 7:20

Now this is a personal follow-on to that first question about what it felt like. Were you all alone in this? Did you have support system? How did you get through this?

Kerisma Vere 7:30

Well, I I was all alone. I that's the thing, and that was sort of partly what was leading up to the the breakdown. I had um my friends had been falling away because I was starting to see the world through the lenses that I had when I was a kid, and I was perceiving rejection and judgment and all kinds of things, even when it wasn't there, probably. So I wasn't navigating relationships well at all. I have a relational trauma as part of my history. And so I had pretty much and I actually had one one good friend who I had known for 30 years, but in the state I was, I I kept forgetting that I had her. So, you know, and and she worked full time and and lived uh about an hour away. So I really only talked to her every four weeks or so, I think, you know. But she was there and that that uh did make a difference. And actually as I started to recognize more that she was there, um I'm so grateful because her her love and support was so unconditional. Like she let me come over and I didn't have to be able to communicate or or anything like that, and she just uh accepted me in the state I was and the fact that she had known me so long was really grounding for me because I um it gave me something sort of to work back towards because you know, like it it reminded me of who I had been just to be with her. But other than that, no, I was on my own. I and the first attempts I made at finding um help did not go very well. Um but eventually I hooked up with a a really good therapist who uh was uh then able to kind of help me for the next eight years.

Jeanne Andersen 9:08

Right. It is hard to do anything without a support system, so kudos to you for getting through that. That's quite a bit. And were you in the hospital a lot during this breakdown or were you at home?

Kerisma Vere 9:21

In uh in 2018, yeah, I did go into the hospital. And unfortunately, like when I checked in, they they left me in this tiny little room for about eight hours. Then they put me in a bed and they ignored me for five days, you know, and and I was that just aggravated the situation so much more. And then they sent me home, you know, with um a nurse was gonna check up on me twice a week or something. And I was quite convinced that one of the medications I was on, one of the antidepressants I was on was actually like exasperating things. So I kind of made a decision, like, I'm going back and I'm not leaving until until they, you know, help me. And so I went back and the same thing happened, only this time I was left in the hallway. And then it's with somebody with acute PTSD being left in a very busy hallway for five days was not a good situation. So um I actually got into the the psych ward and um this other place called Crest on the same day, and I had to choose. And the the place called Crest, you got your own bedroom. So I uh I went there, but it was just a a two-week kind of thing. So they did help me um stabilize the medication and and kind of stabilize, but after two weeks I was sent home and I was very much alone and very much not well. So that's when I started trying to find uh different services and access, different resources. Um but it was it was a it was a slow grind. Those first couple of years were were really brutal, right? But I mean, but that's where a lot of my work is derived from is like you know, I can help people with upper level kinds of creating change and and stuff like that, you know, like where we're finding how often you're going to the gym or your nutrition or all the rest of it. I'm trained in all of that. But my non-judgmental unconditional regard kind of comes from like, I know what it's like to just try to like, you know, um do laundry or brush your teeth or have a shower or any of those really, really basic things, you know. I I know what it's like to be sitting in shame or judgment or uh discomfort or even fear, because you know, when we're not able to take care of ourselves on those basic kind of levels that there's a threat there, you know, like that, oh my God, I'm not okay, right? So that's kind of like the bottom in the in the trenches kind of experience that I've had so that it that it kind of allows me to meet people wherever they're at. Most people tend to be a lot more functioning than that, but it is where my kind of non-judgmental approach comes from because I've been to some places and I understand how difficult it can be there, and I would never judge anybody else for struggling with whatever it is that they're struggling with.

Jeanne Andersen 12:02

Well, I'm so surprised at the medical system that they know you're not communicative, you're having trouble just doing your basic necessities, uh, such as cooking or doing laundry, and they send you home alone. That is shocking to me, but I I don't really understand what else could have been done, or I just don't know what they're thinking doing that to someone. This is why a lot of times I think we end up with a lot of homeless folks. They just don't know what to do. So I'm thankful that you're not like that.

Kerisma Vere 12:36

I I

Rebuilding One Basic Need at a Time

Kerisma Vere 12:37

was really grateful because um that's the thing. Everything else, I lost like I couldn't figure out like my accounts and everything, but I I maintained access to my bank account and I prioritized paying the rent. So, but I have often thought about that time as oh, I came so close. I used to came so close to being out on the street. But you know, I was lucky enough that I was able to continue to pay the rent. I put uh Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a a triangle, and I I printed that out or or I drew it out or something, and I put it on my fridge and I just focused on that. Okay, like right now we're just the basic needs, you know, food, shelter, clothes on our back. That's it. We're just there. And then and that was sort of like was my model for rebuilding over the next couple of years, is just like we're slowly moving up that triangle to to more sophisticated kind of needs and care, right? But that's the truth. I think a lot of people out there, it's just like they got to a place where it was overwhelming to even meet those basic needs, right? And then that is a difficulty within our society that I see all the time is that once you get bumped out of that basic stability, so hard to get back in, right? Like, you know, because if you don't have a phone or a roof over your head, you don't have access to those kinds of things, there's just everything else gets incrementally that much harder.

Jeanne Andersen 13:57

Right. You're absolutely spot on because once you're out there, no cell phone, uh no address, I mean, can't even apply for a job because they want to know how to contact you and you have no way to be contacted. So I'm truly grateful you didn't get to that point, but um, I can see how scary it is, and I'm just so surprised they let you go home without just like a caregiver or somebody there for you.

Kerisma Vere 14:25

Yeah, unfortunately, it's uh sometimes systems I think systems fail people all the time, right? You know, so but then I also see that as a a place where, you know, the coaching and the books that I've written and stuff like have it have a place because it's just like, you know, I have that accessibility policy where I give free PDF copies of my books to anybody who can't afford it, because like I know what it's like not to have access to resources based on on your financial situation and stuff like that, right? So you play the two truths in a lie game. I often play the if I was in charge of the world game. When I when I run into things that like just really bother me and stuff, I was like, well, if I was in charge of the world, it would be like this.

Jeanne Andersen 15:09

I like

The Breakdown That Became a Breakthrough

Jeanne Andersen 15:10

that game. Well, at some point though, I'm sorry we went deep diving into all that personal uh trauma, but at some point something shifted for you. It wasn't overnight as you uh described, but a moment or a season where you started moving in a different direction. So what does that turning point look like when you look back at it now?

Kerisma Vere 15:33

You know, I think there's been a resilience within me that I I really appreciate. And even in my darkest hour where I have parts that have given up, there's always a part of me that has uh a life force and and uh, you know, like I'm just I thought of that uh breakdown. My whole life things have happened and I I just got back up, you know, and and I've refused to let those things define me, and I've refused to um stay in in in bitterness or anything else is gonna take away my ability to actually enjoy life, right? So it's just be like, okay, all right, that's suck, let's try again, you know. Um let's learn from what and let's try again. And that that's kind of been a beautiful gift I've had my whole life. But that when I had the breakdown, like I couldn't get back up. That was the problem. I I sometimes I think of it as a like a bouncy ball that's been bouncing, and then all of a sudden it gets flat. It's just stopped bouncing, right? You know, and so it's it just took a while. But what I can recognize is is that energy, that that get back up energy. It was still there. It was just very, very muted, and it took a lot of work, and I did find connecting myself with some resources to slowly start to have that energy of like, okay, we're we're starting to stand back up. Okay, we're standing back up. And now, you know, now I live life, I'm in the world very differently. I don't um I'm not so bouncy, you know, but I I absolutely have joy and energy and and my quality of life, I think, is is uh better than it's ever been before. And you know, it it took a long time to get from that flat affect to actually being able to feel the joy and the gratitude. And, you know, unfortunately, that also means feeling the grief and the pain and the and and all the rest of that stuff. But it's uh we're a packaged deal, you know. I I often think of it at like it's the sun and the moon, right? We all want to hold on to the sunshine, but the the moon in the darkness, um, that's a part of it too, right? So on a daily basis, I I try to make peace with with that's what it's like to be human is to to embody all of that, right? So, but I think from that I have a quality of life now that I that I wouldn't have had if um that stuff didn't happen, right? But yeah, just that I think that, you know, like just that um I don't know, there was something in me, you know, because I was I was um I was at the end definitely when that breakdown happened, I was just like, you know, oh I don't once again I was just not sure how I could possibly go on. But something did, you know, something would pick up the phone and call some numbers and and try to find some help. And something kept showing up at therapy week after week, and something got, you know, it's like, okay, I'll go to these groups that they're offering, you know, and like, okay, I'll try to reduce the substances by just a tiny little bit. And like, okay, I'll try to eat like once a day or something, you know, like there's just there's something within me that has always continued to um, you know, and and uh I talk about that with people too, because sometimes we we believe ourselves when we say we give up, right? But I look at my own history and I think, okay, so yeah, you you hit those places, you think that you've given up, so then you kind of go about destroying everything. But it turns out you didn't really give up. And eventually the future you has to deal with the mess that the present you made. So now I I have caught on. So when I'm in that like, oh, kind of give up or set back place or anything like that. I I try to do as little damage or make as little of a mess as possible because I I recognize that eventually I'm gonna get back on track. So, you know, let's not make a huge mess that I have to clean up. Let's not destroy all the progress that that I have made, you know, and all of us as adults. It's just like nobody else is gonna come along and clean up the mess that we made. So, you know, I just I like to think that it's like if I gotta throw something, I'll throw a pillow instead of a rock because it does a lot less damage, right?

Jeanne Andersen 19:23

Right. Well, I like your analogy of the the sun, the moon, and the stars being a package deal. I like that because you're absolutely correct. I mean, you're always it's also cyclical. You all you need both of them. I mean, if you had sun all day long, you would burn. And if you had night, you wouldn't be able to just move around. I mean, it would be just too dark if you had no light at all. And the stars, they're out some nights and not others. So I like that analogy. You must use that in your framework.

Kerisma Vere 19:57

I definitely do, right? It's been a way for for me to understand things about myself and but uh also help help clients and stuff like that as well,

Learning to Stop Fighting Yourself

Kerisma Vere 20:08

right?

Jeanne Andersen 20:08

So Right. So before you had your language of the framework, when you were still in the middle of everything, you know, pulling yourself out of the trenches, what did trying to get better actually feel like from the inside? And what were you telling yourself?

Kerisma Vere 20:23

Well, after the breakdown, it was pretty hard. Um, but uh I don't know. It really made a difference that I had that counselor who believed in me. You know, like the first time I went to see her, I was just like such a mess. And and I'm not really one to even cry in front of people, but I was just like my face was leaking so badly, and I was just like, you know, and um I know this is an actual counseling trick, right? Like, but it was genuine. And you know, like she leaned forward towards me, and that just symbolically was like, okay, you're in this with me, and and you're gonna help me. So what it was like, it was um trying to really trying to cope and and trying to um learn from the things that that people were teaching me. I was fortunate enough to be in groups that were they were addiction-based, but they people include on enough into the more contemporary approaches that you know, like this is about mental health. So there was a lot of work about distorted thinking and and how to derive real self-worth and other kinds of stuff like that that was really helpful. So I like I just kept I just kept kind of learning, you know, like how to put myself back together again, you know, and be whole. And and I learned a new understanding of what it means to be whole, you know, like so many, I think I don't think I'm alone in the fact that I spent a lot of my life thinking that overcoming and being whole and being well meant getting rid of parts of myself that were unpleasant or unhelpful or undesirable, you know. So, and then like what I really under came to kind of understand is it's like if you're trying to get rid of anything. You think about you, that's gonna create chaos inside, you know, because because it's gonna cause resistance, right? Like, ah, you're trying to get rid of me, right? Whereas when you embrace everything about yourself, right? It's just like, okay, yeah, I get you, you're there. You tried to you tried to help me in this way. That's not how we're gonna do things anymore, but thank you, and you can be here too, and you and all these different aspects of ourselves. You can all be here and and I love you all unconditionally, but I'm I'm gonna steer the bus here. This is how we're gonna do things. But no longer fighting with all of those parts or trying to eliminate them, it eases all the chaos and and the and the disturbed nervous system that many of us have, right? Instead, we we start to have real inner peace because that to me that's what healing and wholeness is about is about learning how to be in relationship with the the aspects of myself, right? It's kind of like you know, we we laugh because we don't get to pick who our family is. We we we tend to pick who our friends are, but we we don't necessarily get to pick everything that exists inside ourselves, but it is what's there. So making peace with it and learning how to be in harmony with it, in my opinion, is is a good strategy towards having a a better life, right? I don't think that trying to fix, trying to judge, eliminate, or suppress things ever is going to work out in the way that we want it to.

Jeanne Andersen 23:26

Right. I used to tell my kids, you know, you can't get away from yourself. You better like yourself because you're gonna be stuck with yourself. That's it. I know the movie Freaky Friday and all those crazy switcheroo movies are fun and happy, but it doesn't happen. So you are who you are. Just like Pope I said, I am what I am.

Kerisma Vere 23:48

Yeah, for sure.

Jeanne Andersen 23:50

Most people approach change the same way. Decide, commit, push through. What did you have to unlearn about that before anything actually started to shift for you?

Kerisma Vere 24:00

Well, I think

Why Self-Worth Can't Depend on Achievement

Kerisma Vere 24:01

what I really started with was like right before my breakdown. I thought I was at the I thought I was finally at, you know, I was finally at a place where I get to enjoy life. I had lost 80 pounds. I had learned learned how much I loved working out, you know, I had started working out l later in my 40s, and I just loved it, you know, and um and yeah, I was like, you know, I'd work out six days a week because I absolutely loved it and with walks and and I had um lost the 80 pounds very slowly, a pound to a pound and a half a week, so in a very healthy way, and I was consistent and and uh persevered and I had become a vegan, which was like thrilling to me because I'd never really believed in in eating animals, but I always had because it's more of a laziness kind of thing than and uh not knowing how to do it differently kind of thing, you know. And I um had I had put a lot of work into learning how to be a coach and um and getting ready to come up and be a coach. And so I started my coaching business, and you know, I I think I had uh about 10 clients and you know I called myself a weight loss coach. I'm not sure that I really helped anybody lose very much weight, but I helped them all have better relationships with themselves, right? You know, and uh and changing how they treat, yeah, right. So that and that was just like thrilling to me. I just I love doing that. I had always wanted a more meaningful career, you know, and um so I was doing that, and I, you know, I had muscles and I I felt really good about myself, you know, and all of these different and I I was married and you know, I was finally married and and I had more friends and I would had 14 years clean. So that but if you can see what I'm saying, there was all these external metrics that were actually fueling why I felt so good about my life and why I felt so good about myself. And I didn't understand that it was all dependent on all those things. So as I started to get sick and those things started to fall off, and I was unable to maintain all of that stuff, and I lost the wife, and I and I lost the the fitness routine, and I voluntarily um let go of my clients because I no longer felt like I was in a position to help them with any kind of integrity or ethics. And so it it all fell apart, and then I was my relationship with myself was worse than it had ever been. Like I was thrown back to when I was a teenager and even worse, you know, because I all of my self-worth had been conditional on the things that I was doing. And that in my opinion is never a good idea because what we're able to do can change in a heartbeat, you know, whether we're in a car accident or whether we have a breakdown like that or what, you know, the all of those external things, they are not within our control, you know. We can have influence over them often, but but at the end of the day, stuff can happen, right, in a in a heartbeat. So I think that was a a real part of this change thing that that you questioned that you asked me is that to learn how to derive my own self-worth just from me as a human being, without the doing anything, right? Like just sitting here in this moment doing absolutely nothing. I am worthy and deserving of my own love. So then the creating change and becomes a place of choice, not I have to feel good about myself or have to to live up to other people's expectations or anything like that. Like if I like, you know, I'm I'm working on losing weight again and it's it's actually really difficult, but I keep coming back to my whys, and my whys are about health, you know, they're about health and they're about the what I want. And I don't have to be miserable while I wait to lose the weight that I want because I already love myself, you know. I'm already in a place of like, all right, okay, you look a little lumpy in the mirror, and I don't particularly like that, but I still love you, right? I still I love you and I got your back, right? So then the these all these different things like you know, eating better, going to the gym, going for walks, drinking more water, prioritizing rest, all of the stuff that goes into trying to lose weight is all coming from a place of choice. And my my self-worth is not tied up into it. So it just it changes the whole pressure and approach to creating that change, right? Like so it's a bonus, right? Like I'm I'm doing this because I want to, not because I need to. I mean, I kind of need to for my health, but like not not in a tied up in yourself worth kind of thing, right? And then just the me also coming to understand that perfectionism is impossible. And I I used to always like, you know, have the bar set so high and and think I had to do things perfectly. And and because I I actually thought that that was smart and wise and strategic, you know. But when I came to realize that it that perfect is impossible, just like, wow, you've been trying to do something a way that is actually impossible. So where whereby you actually wanted to do it the best way and the most efficient way, you were actually choosing a way that is like, you know, up there with fairy tales. It's it's not gonna happen. So what if we use that same desire to do things uh strategically and efficiently and understand, like, hey, okay, change is going to be a journey like this, you know, and it's gonna have some winding backs and stuff like that. So I have a much better understanding of it, right? Like, and like even with the food, right? If I shoot for 80% eating on point, that allows 20% whatever, because whatever happens, right? You know, and there's a lot more freedom with self, there's more quality of life because let's face it, I like fish and chips. So if every once in a while I can have some fish and chips, that's gonna improve my quality of life. If I'm having fish and chips every single day, there's going to be a cost and a consequence. So I like 80%, right? And I lower it a little bit if there's other stuff going on. But let's shoot for 80% because that gets a rule. 20% allows that freedom of choice, which leads to quality of choice. I mean quality of life. When we shoot for 100%, there's a couple of things. One, it's not possible. Life is going to happen. You're going to get stuck out having to make a choice that doesn't fit within that perfect thing, right? Life is going to come along and it's going to make it so that you can't do it as perfectly as you want it. The other part of that is that when we are that strict with ourselves, it's just a matter of time till it backfires, right? So then all of a sudden, you there's a part of you that feels so hard done by you go, you sneak, you buy the box of cookies, you eat the whole box of cookies because you're basically telling yourself to have off because it's just like you've been coming down too too hard, too strict on yourself, right? So this is what I mean, having a more realistic understanding of change and being a little bit more flexible and understanding with ourselves and allowing for these ups and downs and and being able to adjust and and not be so rigid about it actually ends up getting like way better results than the whole trying to be perfect or trying to do it instantly does.

Jeanne Andersen 31:10

Yeah,

Compassion Over Criticism

Jeanne Andersen 31:11

well, I think that you're a very compassionate person and working with people. So you have just kind of outlined my next question, which was what kind of conversation would would you have with someone who is losing faith in themselves? And what would that conversation actually look like? And I think you just answered that before I could ask it, because you're saying basically love yourself and give yourself some slack and don't go for perfection. Um, would you have more to add there?

Kerisma Vere 31:41

I would. I I think sometimes so simply the critic doesn't take things into context, right? It's like, okay, you're a loser because you didn't go to the gym, or you know, or you messed up royally because you had pizza for dinner or whatever. It's just it's a very narrow lens that labels and judges without context, right? The compassionate lens looks at the whole picture. It's like, oh, you didn't go to the gym because you got a really crummy night's sleep, because you're really stressed out about this, or because you had nightmares. And then like you woke up in the morning and you got that very stressful phone call. And by the time you were done, that you were actually like completely wiped out emotionally. So you didn't end up going to the gym, right? And then, but that's where the problem solving can come in, is this like, oh, okay, if we really understand what was going on, all right. So maybe today's not a day for the gym. I wonder if I could go sit outside for 10 minutes, or I wonder if I could just go for a little walk around the block or something, right? Maybe you can, maybe he can't, or maybe I'm gonna go lay down in my bed and just like, because it's still nine o'clock in the morning, just after I've already been through it. So let's go have a little rest and then see what we can do with the rest of our day. So I I always think that the compassion is that it's bringing in the bigger picture, which allows us to make wiser decisions about what we're gonna do in the moment, right? And the critic tries to help, but it's it's a very, very narrow lens. So the point of that is if you're feeling like you're losing faith in yourself, or if you're feeling like you're the problem or you're messing up, or you just can't do it, I would really encourage you, whether you do it with yourself or with somebody else, to look at what is really going on. Chances are you are struggling somewhere in your life. Chances are feelings are building up inside you about something. And kindness, validation, acknowledgement, and support are gonna go way, way, way farther than judgment or strictness or trying to push yourself even harder ever, ever will. You know, and and sometimes it's as simple as just like, you know, giving yourself a little hug and going, Wow, yeah, yeah, things are really hard right now. And it doesn't have to be something that anybody else would even understand. Just be like, you know, for you right now, you're having a tough time, right? And if you can come in with that love and support, when you're feeling like the lack of faith in yourself or really struggling, or it's all too hard or whatever, you know, that's what you likely need is is some tenderness and some some love, you know, and and we can actually give that to ourselves. And it does, it absolutely does end up having a more powerful effect than the um coming down hard on ourselves or just just trying to push through or or you know, oh I gotta try, just gotta try harder. No, you don't. You gotta meet yourself where you're at and offer yourself some kindness and compassion and then like you know, take a breath, take a breath, give yourself a little bit of time. Guaranteed you'll find the energy again to work towards the thing it is that you that's important to you.

Jeanne Andersen 34:46

So my last question for you is you know, you work in a space where the language of self-compassion can start to sound like wallpaper. I mean, just you Google it or look at YouTube and say you want to learn about self-love. There's a million people out there with videos talking about, you know, loving yourself and treating yourself with kindness. And how do you stop the noise? What do you say to people when they really need to find help? Where do they go?

Kerisma Vere 35:16

That's

Cutting Through Self-Help Noise

Kerisma Vere 35:17

a multi question there. You know, for one thing I like to tell people there's a really big difference between knowing something and doing something, you know, and self-love and changing that relationship with yourself is it's a practice. It's not a it's not an idea, it's not something you read in the book. And affirmations can come in handy, I think. You know, I don't want to I don't want to diss Louise Hayes because she's got some really great points. But if you really listen to Louise Hayes, you would hear her say the same thing. So this is about practicing, taking care of yourself, right? You don't have to do it perfectly. But I mean, yeah, whether you know you you're practicing, like I'm I'm going through some stuff right now, and I tend to go through things mostly on my own, right? So I am practicing, letting my my best friend know what's going on on a regular basis. I pick up the phone and I I share what what it is that I'm feeling. So I'm practicing that right now. But, you know, like feeding myself, putting myself to bed, having a bath, you know, being kind to myself, all of these things, they're there's things I practice on a regular basis, right? The you're right about the noise. And the journal I have, the um Ways I Showed Up for Myself, a 60-day self-gratitude practice, people are so used to gratitude being like, you know, oh, I'm grateful for the roof over my head, I'm grateful for my husband or my mom or my whatever. And it's like it's that is wonderful to be grateful for everything that is in your life. But I propose that if you're not actually acknowledging yourself and understanding how you yourself are showing up for yourselves in ways that are meaningful, everything else is going to be somewhat superficial. We can say it till the cows come home, but can we really be truly grateful for all the other stuff in our life if inside we're feeling miserable and struggling and and we're being in relationship with ourselves in a way that is is is painful, right? Like I don't I don't think we can. But when we start to get really good with ourselves by treating ourselves with love and kindness, which is not an instant perfect all the time kind of thing. It's like, oh wow, I was yeah, I just said that mean thing to myself. I don't like how that feels. But I wonder what else could I I could say, or you know, like, oh wow, yeah, I was really pushing myself hard all day. Hmm, what could I do for myself tonight? You know, like even if I just take five minutes to be a little bit kinder to myself, or, you know, like the journal is like, what's something I let go of today? Even if it was for 30 seconds, right? You know, or acknowledging something that you maintained, or something that was difficult or took courage, or we really, you know, starting to learn how to acknowledge ourselves. And it also changes our relationships with other people because if I'm already learning how to acknowledge myself, one, I recognize it when you're not, and I'm no longer so vulnerable to when I'm not getting it from other people because I know how to give it to myself, right? Which I kind of ups our game in in who we will share things with and who we actually want in in our life because we've now learned to treat ourselves the way that we deserve to be treated.

Jeanne Andersen 38:24

Yeah, that's great. I guess I'm thinking too about like, you know, videos that I've seen, it's like have this drink before you go to bed and you'll wake up with a feeling of happiness every morning. And and oh, by the way, it will help your skin. Or, you know, do this uh particular exercise, and all of a sudden your joints and everything will flow with energy and and you'll be very cognizant and be able to, you know, do math skills.

Kerisma Vere 38:53

Tai chi walking is the solution to all my problems from what I've seen.

Jeanne Andersen 38:57

Exactly. So this is like what you're doing, is this is just really uh serious business. And I guess that's what I'm saying. How you cut through all that noise to get people to come to you or to somebody like you instead of following, and I I'm not saying Tai Chi walking isn't good, but...

Kerisma Vere 39:13

I think I just wait for people to get sick of trying things the same way and like because I mean eventually gonna come to the same conclusion that I did, which is like, you know, okay, that's all BS and there isn't a simple solution, you know. Me drinking lemon water every morning's not gonna like make me lose 50 pounds in two weeks, right? You know, but me working towards eating better and sleeping better and taking care of my emotional health and getting regular movement, that actually will, right? You know, and if it doesn't, then I need to do more research to get more help and figure out what else is going on to work with myself. But I certainly understand why we're so vulnerable. If we've struggled with something our whole life and we've tried things and they didn't work and they didn't work, and somebody comes along and they go, I have the solution for you. I can cure, I can cure your trauma in 15 days, right? You know, for $4.99. And it's like, yeah, like we're yes, we're inside, we're deep in pain about this thing that we've been trying to change, right? So somebody comes along and they they offer us a solution. It's just like there's a part of us that wants to grab on to that because it's like, yes, would you take this pain away, please, right? Can you help me with this, please, right? And it's just like some point we gotta realize those are false promises. You know, I I think it's you know, the modern day snake oil salesman, right? The guy on the on the soapbox, right? Dr. McGillakari, cure all cure all, drink this and you'll be you'll live to be 150. But yeah, so it's just like, you know, you can keep doing things and trying for the quick fixes and and jumping like from one fad diet to another or one fad thing to another and everything like that. And you'll probably get little results here and there. And I mean, at least you're doing something, right? But at some point you might want to sort of get strategic about it and build a solid foundation with yourself first and then figure out what is going to actually work for you in your life and be the person who decides what is best for you. Like you can take information from all of the rest of it, use critical thinking to kind of cut through, right, and grab, extrapolate the truth in it all, right? And then apply it to your own life in such a way that you likely are going to get results, right? But that isn't gonna be an instant transformation, you know. Like, unless you want a bald hat, get a razor and shave your head and you that boom. You can you can do that really quickly, but most things are gonna take a little bit of effort, a little bit of time. And you know, one of the courses I took a long time ago is like your chances at creating the change you want and maintaining the change you want go up by 80% when you enlist the proper kind of help, right? Like, you know, actual supportive people, not not people just like preying on you, but actual legitimate kind of help that's gonna support you as you move through those stages of change, right? So nowadays when I'm just like stubborn about trying to do things on my own, I'm like, uh, okay, well, you can do it, try to do it on your own, and it can take you a lot longer, and you can bang your head against the wall an awful lot, or you could just like bring in some support and and maybe actually go through this a lot quicker and and maybe even enjoy yourself more while you're doing

Two Truths and a Lie

Kerisma Vere 42:30

it.

Jeanne Andersen 42:30

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, this has been a great conversation, and I thank you for sharing some of the details that uh maybe are a little bit you know, personal and scary and vulnerable, but thank you so much because I think it could help a lot of people. Um, we're gonna transition into our two truths and a lie. And the way this works, folks, is that Kerisma has given me three headlines about her life. Two of them are true, and one of them is a lie or a twisted truth in some way. But these will show a little bit even deeper, more personal. If we can get more personal with you. But more of the, you know, just the kind of fun things that she's gone through. This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts. Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different. Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story. And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech. Simple socket print, the lightweight blazing fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the bloat. With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print. Sequence and automatic base 64 decoding all without needing print driver installs. If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, Simple Socket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work. Keep your workflow simple. Keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print. Thank you to our sponsors. Number one headline: Kerisma rebuilt her life from barely functioning to leading wellness groups, providing trauma-aware coaching that helps others improve their relationship with self and publishing books that highlight more realistic approaches to change. The number two headline is once charisma walked away from a workout to sit by a lake and discovered a completely new way to approach discipline and self-trust. And number three, while writing her first book, Kerisma lived off grid in a cabin for a year with no electricity. So those are the three. Now I get to guess, and then you're going to walk us through the stories and then not reveal the lie till the end. So I'm going to guess number three, because I can't believe you would live off grid in a cabin for a year with no electricity. But you also said you couldn't do laundry there was a period of time where you couldn't do laundry, couldn't cook, and also maybe you could do that. Anyway, take us through the stories.

Kerisma Vere 45:22

Absolutely. You know, I I did rebuild my life. Um I came from a place of barely functioning. And uh as I prior to that, you know, like I that's what I've always done is I've shared what I have learned with others to help them because I I believe in that that kind of a relationship uh and and helping people. So as I learned new ways to be in the world and new ways to heal, I um put that to good use and and shared it with others and uh eventually even to the point of um publishing some books as resources to put out there to other people and uh it definitely was the like let's dismantle this idea of instant permanent kind of change and and look at what the actual real practical realistic steps to creating change are. And uh number two, yeah. So there was this day and I I had finally found a good mechanic and they had a courtesy car, and so I um took the courtesy car up to the the sister gym and I was at the gym and I I always start with a red light workout in the total body enhancement. I I dance for 12 minutes. That's kind of like my personalized warm-up. I don't like the treadmill, so I go dance for for 12 minutes as I warm up. And I w I was in there and I was thinking about the the workout I was gonna do next, and I was realizing that I was like, you know, 15 minutes away from a lake I hadn't been to in in quite a while. So I uh grabbed my stuff out of the locker and I and I headed to the lake and I had uh packed lunch, of course. So I got to sit at the lake and and have a beautiful exchange with with nature. And I would have to say that probably my mental health and and my emotional and my physical health were all the much better for it. It's like that's the listening, you know. Well, I I would have like had to grind through the workout at the gym because I didn't want to do it. Whereas I went, I went for a walk around the lake, I got to have a picnic lunch, and I had just an absolute beautiful day. That was, you know, so things don't always have to look the way you you think they're gonna look, right? And uh the third one, yeah, it's like, you know, I I always believe that, you know, to write a book you're gonna have to like buckle down, focus, put everything aside, pull out the typewriter, and get her done. And that's not gonna happen overnight because it it takes time. So I had to go, you know, find a cabin and and get out my uh typewriter and click, click, click away until I was done.

Jeanne Andersen 47:59

Oh wow. Yeah, with no electricity, you'd have to use a typewriter because you couldn't use your computer. Number two story, I can believe that. I could talk myself out of working out easily. So I still think that one's true. But number three, which one is the lie?

Kerisma Vere 48:17

Which one is the lie? It's three. I never went to a cabin. I I absolutely used modern software. But the the truth is number three is what I thought it was gonna take when I was 16 years old, right? And that back in that day, I was on a typewriter, right?

Jeanne Andersen 48:32

Oh, how funny. Oh wow, that was fun. That was fun. And I think we really talked about number one, so it was kind of not a surprise. But anyway, I know folks are gonna want to reach out to you, um, especially those people that feel like you were feeling and just don't know how to get through life, you know, they're shutting down. So I'm gonna show the contact information for folks and how to reach you, and all this information will be in the show notes and then on the webpage of ProjectCandor.com after the show uh releases. But uh, you want to talk about your quote here? You gave us a great one.

Kerisma Vere 49:11

Yeah, you know, I I heard that when I was a teenager, and um I just I've always sort of, you know, walked the path of a different drummer, so to speak. So and quite often the world, the way it's set up, has been a little bit disappointing. So the way that I have coped with that has always been to just be like, okay, well, I'm I'm gonna be the things that I want this world to be. You know, I'm gonna be the I'm gonna step forward and be the kind of change that I would I would like to see reflected around me. And that's been, you know, by and large, a a pretty good way to live and a pretty good way to channel any of my um frustration with uh systems. Because I think what politics and and everything else, we can just all get so bogged down, you know, in in resentment and frustration and disappointment and all the rest of it. And it's not that those feelings aren't valid, but I just kind of choose to sort of put a put a different spin on it so that um I uh can not not be as impacted by all those things that that I am out of control of. And that's where that game I mentioned, my my game of uh uh if I was in charge of the world, and just so I'll finish with that. If I was in charge of the world, when they're shutting down streets, they would have to negotiate with other traffic people shutting down other streets so that you couldn't have two streets that were connected, both having work done on them at the same time. If you know what I mean.

Jeanne Andersen 50:43

Okay, if I could change the world, I would not allow e-bikes. No, my neighborhood is overrun with e-bikes. Oh my gosh. Well, that's a good game. I might have to play it sometime. Okay, well, thank you so much for being on the show. Um, for those listening, I hope you'll tune in next time for another great guest. And until I see you again from your Admiral of the Unexpected, I wish you all smooth sailing. Thank you, Kerisma. Bye.

Kerisma Vere 51:16

Bye-bye.

Closing Thoughts

Jeanne Andersen 51:18

Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real. If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew. Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck. I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected. See you on the next voyage.