Don't Fight. Sail On. with Dr. John Reaves | Ship's Log #29

"The most important promotion you will ever earn is the one no one can give you. It begins the moment you stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing your own growth." 

— John Reaves 

Episode Summary 

John Reaves spent decades doing everything the corporate world told him to do — building the resume, earning the credentials, staying late, and checking every box. And still, something was missing. In this episode of Project Candor, John shares the moment he realized he had outsourced his own definition of progress — and what happened when he took it back. 

From three layoffs across a 30-year career to refusing to shred documents that could have cost him his job, John brings honesty and hard-won perspective to questions most professionals are afraid to ask themselves. He and Jeanne dig into what it means to separate identity from position, why health has to come before hustle, and what really changes when you stop waiting to be chosen. 

And in Two Truths & A Lie — John accidentally reveals the answer before Jeanne even has a chance to guess. The real story he hid behind the lie is worth the whole episode. 

Guest Bio 

John A. Reaves, PhD, is a corporate executive and the author of The Real Promotion — a book for professionals who are ready to stop waiting for permission and start defining success for themselves. After years chasing credentials and titles, he made a pivotal discovery: the most important promotion you'll ever earn is the one no one can give you. 

 Guest Links 

Website: https://www.johnareaves.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-reaves/

YouTube:  

 Guest CTA 

Visit https://johnareaves.com to learn more about The Real Promotion, access career development resources, watch short leadership videos, and connect with John directly. 

Who do you know who'd make a great guest for the show? Please let us know.
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Transcript

– Introduction

John Reaves 0:03

The most important promotion you will ever earn is the one no one can give you. It begins the moment you stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing your own growth. I wrote this book and I really hope it resonates with other people, but my biggest thing is to help people to stop chasing validation and start choosing their intention of growth.

Jeanne 0:30

Hello

– Meet Dr. John Reaves and The Real Promotion

Jeanne 0:31

and welcome aboard Project Candor. Today we welcome John Reaves. John A. Reaves, PhD, is a corporate executive and the author of The Real Promotion, a book written for professionals who are ready to stop waiting for permission and start defining success for themselves. After years of chasing credentials, titles, and recognition, John came to an uncomfortable realization the issue isn't how hard he was working, it was who he had allowed to define progress for him. His work centers on one powerful idea. The most important promotion you'll ever receive is the one you choose for yourself. Hi, John. Welcome aboard our little ship, Project Cander.

John Reaves 1:15

Well, hello. And you know what? Because of you reading my bio and general information, I don't think I need to say anything else. That said it all.

Jeanne 1:25

You did all of that. And I I really like what you stand for. I like to be able to give my I gave myself promotion. Actually, I didn't tell you this earlier, but I've become an admiral. Did you not promote myself? All right. I'm the admiral of the unexpected. I love it too. I gave it to myself. Of course, I'm a pirate at heart, so hey, we can do whatever we want.

John Reaves 1:48

Yeah, I well, I've always been a giant believer of, and especially in the last several years, you know, you need to really stop waiting for people to advance your cause, look in the mirror, come up with a plan, and advance your own.

Jeanne 2:04

I love that. Yes, I agree. Let's do it. What else can we conquer?

John Reaves 2:10

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jeanne 2:12

Well, so the way the show, we're gonna start off with some interview questions for you before we play our two truths in a lie. So are you ready to get started?

John Reaves 2:20

I am so ready. I hope you're ready too.

Jeanne 2:22

Yes, I am. We want to find out a lot about you, and I'm ready to ask.

John Reaves 2:27

Nice.

Jeanne 2:28

Okay. So you described spending years doing everything right, building the resume, staying late, checking every box, and still feeling stuck. When did you realize something deeper needed to change?

John Reaves 2:42

Well,

– When success no longer feels successful

John Reaves 2:43

I don't think it was necessarily a specific day and time. I think it was probably a period of time. And I would say what happened was back in probably the late early 2000s, I left a job that I really loved, but it was burning me out. And I thought it was time to sort of switch the curve. You know, I had the title, had the salary, had a whole lot of different things. But for me, I just was at a point in my life where I said, this can't be all to life, you know, you know, working a job so that you can pay a mortgage and have a title, have an office. And I just came to the realization I wanted so much more. But I think the other thing is I've come up with a number of um work colleagues over the sort of decades, and a bunch of them are no longer with us because they either died or have significant impediments with their health because they were so busy chasing titles and not chasing their health like I was. So I've always believed that health should always be your literally number one first promotion. And at least for me, while I was sort of in the chase, I always made sure I was taking care of my physical and my mental health, and my peers were not. And unfortunately, they're no longer with us today. And I'm sure some of them would have said, Oh my God, oh my God, why didn't I come to that realization too to just stop and look in the mirror and make some changes?

Jeanne 4:18

Yeah, that's profound. Uh, because it's like when you walk away from what you did, I mean, did you have an umbrella? Did you just decide I can't take it anymore? And what was that old movie? I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore.

John Reaves 4:34

Well, you know, it wasn't exactly like that. It was again, because it was a wonderful job and the environment was, you know, pretty good as well. But what I was doing, I it wasn't where I wanted to see myself sign off for the rest of my professional career. And some people will spend 20, 30, and 40 years in a row and then realize one day, oh my God, why did I spend so much time at a job? And I did not want that to be me. And I will tell you, when I made the pronouncement when I came home, my wife said, You're doing what? Yes, I mean, we had a little bit of money saved and all that good stuff. But for me, it was more about time to look at my career differently, time to stop feeling like the world's gonna come to an end if I miss a day at work, or feeling like my worth was being determined by others. And that's probably the big thing that a lot of us do when we're in these corporate roles. We're so busy trying to appease everybody, we forget about ourselves.

Jeanne 5:43

Absolutely true. You're always meeting a mark, right? You have your evaluation, and this year you're supposed to meet this mark, and then you work, you work, work to get it, and then the next year it's a little bit higher. And it was impossible to make the first time.

John Reaves 6:00

And it's interesting. I was just talking to a friend a few hours ago, and he had mentioned that he is between jobs, and I asked him, Well, how are you feeling? How you, you know, how's things going? And he said, believe it or not, I'm okay. He said, I just am tired of chasing titles. And I said to him, Do you know the book I just recently wrote? It's like, what? So there are a lot of us that are out there that are saying, enough is enough. And don't get me wrong, you know, there are a number of wonderful companies where people live to go to work and they're doing amazing work and so forth, but then there are a number of other companies out there, not so much. And when I think about like one of the, I think one of the things that happened to me many years ago, I've been laid off three times in my professional career. And over a 30-plus-year career, well, you potentially are going to experience that. And it was really my third layoff that probably was the most uh resonating with me because I was so ready. You're probably saying, What? Who's ready to get laid off? Well, when I think about the first few times, like the first time was very early in my career, I knew it was going to happen. I don't even really count that one because I got, you know, severance. I started a new job the following week. So I really don't know. Yeah. The second time That was lucky though. Yeah, exactly. The second one, on the other hand, was a little bit more interesting where I was in a different state. I was in a job that I really loved, but it was one of those things where the company wanted to go in a different direction, including purchasing another company. And I found myself saying, well, now what? Do I, you know, flip the script and do something different? So I ultimately moved and um returned back to a place where I was most comfortable for, sort of regrouped and then jumped right back in and got another opportunity. The third time was just last year. And out of all of the times that it transpired, the last time was probably bittersweet to me because I knew it was coming because of the positioning of the company. I also had mentally stopped preparing. It's one thing to be prepared where, you know, you have things in the bank and so forth. But that mental piece, I will tell you, is far more crippling and difficult to manage through if you're not ready for it. But I was. And I, you know, took that time and said, you know what? I want to do something a little bit different. I don't want to just jump into another opportunity. I want to do a job that I get excited of waking up. That's not only about the salary, but it's about, you know, what you're doing and the people that you're impacting. And I was so fortunate to find an opportunity like that fairly quickly. So for me, I would just say that when you decide that you're not going to chase titles, that you're going to solely focus on the work and your journey and how you respond to people and how you show up when you are at work, you do start to think of things differently. So if a layoff happens, it's just not that big of a deal. Even though a lot of us will say, well, I like to pay my mortgage on time and I like to be able to provide for my family. Don't get me wrong, that's all important and critical.

Jeanne 9:31

Definitely.

John Reaves 9:32

You can't support and provide for folk if you're sick or dead, right?

Jeanne 9:37

That's very true, too.

John Reaves 9:39

And I think a lot of people forget about that. They get so caught up in this maze, they're not really thinking through who they are. And one of the things that I always wanted to make sure that I wasn't losing myself in the process. In fact, one of my next projects that I plan to do in the future is really kind of talk about what happens to you when you're in the workplace, and most importantly, what becomes of you when you leave. So that's that's a novel day and a novel time. But for this current title, it really is about the professional, whether you are brand new in your career, middle, or even on the decline to retirement, really taking that um, you know, look in the mirror, doing some reflecting, and really kind of determining are you where you want to be? And if you're waiting for your company to get you there, good luck with that.

Jeanne 10:33

Yeah. Yeah. What is that thing they talk about when you're on your deathbed? Nobody ever goes back and says, Boy, I missed that meeting. I wish I had gone.

John Reaves 10:43

I know.

Jeanne 10:44

I'm not thinking about that. So what you're saying goes right into my next question. You've talked about shifting your orientation. So, what did you have to unlearn in order to redefine progress on your own terms?

– Redefining progress and charting your own course

John Reaves 10:59

Oh my goodness. I probably would say one of the biggest things is it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to have a misstep. It's okay not to have all of the answers. When you get out of the space that you have to be perfect, and that, you know, when criticism, you're presented with criticism and you freak out and so forth. Once you get past all of that, I think you'll be in a better headspace to move forward. And for me, again, when I um, you know, learned that fulfillment isn't awarded by an organization, it's built internally through intentional growth, things really started to change for me.

Jeanne 11:43

Absolutely. I wish uh, you know, more people knew that because I see a lot of my friends still struggling where they are and they're not happy. And it's not getting them anywhere. And they can go from place to place, same industry to try to boost up to get another uh level of job. But then they reach this thing where the level of job in that company is lower than the level of job in the other company. It's just like, what are you doing?

John Reaves 12:13

And that's why you you really have to, I guess, put away the company's navigator and create your own.

Jeanne 12:21

Oh, I love that.

Speaker 2 12:22

So, Chart Your own course.

Jeanne 12:24

Oh, that goes great with Project Candor. We're always charting our course here. I love that. Yeah, you're right. You do have to chart your own course because uh uh like I I think I told you this before, my husband being from Europe and Sweden, he he taught me a big valuable lesson of invest in myself. And uh nobody else is gonna nobody should have to pay you to train for a skill. If you want the skill, go do it. Go buy the course, go take the course, go learn it on your own, but invest in yourself because you have to, you know, you are the one that achieves what you want to achieve. Nobody else is gonna do it for you. And that just falls right into what you say.

John Reaves 13:10

And that maybe it's a European mindset that we don't have over here, but well, I would say there probably is some truth to that because a number of the Europeans I've had interaction with over the years in the workplace, their mindset is different. I mean, they do take three or four month vacations. They have no problem if if you have a sick child, they're not looking over their shoulders saying, oh my God, oh my God, I have to um, you know, figure some stuff out. They just promptly leave, let people know that they're gonna be gone for a moment, and then they come back and pick up where they left off. And and you kind of wonder, well, why didn't we get those tenants in this country? Why aren't we replicating some of that? You know, we would prefer to, you know, have people on pins and needles. I mean, I can go on and on about stories where, you know, one of my colleagues, let's see, his wife, was expecting, and she called and said, I think my time is up. And he was in a big meeting saying, Well, I'll get there when I get there. I'm thinking, what? What? Can you just go and take care of that and be present for your family? Because here's the thing those moments you can't get back. You can get back this meeting, you can get back all of that stuff, but you can't get back being present for the birth of your child. I mean, what are we doing? But at the same time, if you are mentally at a point where you feel like everything's going to uh, you know, crash if I'm not present, I got some news for you. If you once your number comes up and you're no longer with the company, guess what happens? Somebody else get that number and stop running until you know that time is up. That's just kind of how it works.

Jeanne 14:52

Yeah, it was a hard lesson for me way at the beginning of my career to learn that everybody's replaceable. Oh. Because I put in this great system when I was in the Navy. You know, the Navy's kind of like they're like regimented, do this, do this, do this. But where I was, they were just doing a lot of automation and stuff. So I've created some systems around it. And then I talked to people when I went to another duty station. I talked to people, I'm like, you still using that thing? Oh no, we trashed that. It was awful. I was like, ah, I'm out of sight, out of mind. You just dumped my whole thing. I was so proud of. But they were getting along, they didn't need me. So whatever.

John Reaves 15:32

Yeah.

Jeanne 15:33

It's sad, but true.

John Reaves 15:35

It is.

Jeanne 15:37

So let's talk about this idea of a promotion that no one else can give you. What changes internally before anything changes externally?

John Reaves 15:46

It really

– The promotion no one else can give you

John Reaves 15:47

is in mindset. I think when you are going through your own transformation, if your mind is not right, there's not a whole lot you can do. And I'll give you a great example. I talk to people all the time that have lost their jobs or feel stuck in their jobs. And their mentality is I'll either get a novel job or I just want to get something so I can, you know, be able to resume my life. But they're not thinking about what comes next. And my belief is before you can start looking for a job, before you can start switching to another job, you really gotta get your mind right. You gotta make sure that you are in a mind space to deal with all the twists and turns and so forth. One of the fun, and I call it an analogy, but it really is just I've watched particularly professional sports, whether it's football and basketball. And keep in mind, I don't know nothing about either sport, but I know a whole lot about their business practices. And one of the interesting things that I've noticed is that coaches, you know, whether it is in December or right after the season has ended, a lot of them get fired. And you're thinking, what is going on? I mean, half of these coaches are being fired. And here's the thing four weeks, five weeks later, they're in new jobs. And you wait, wait, wait them then. How can that be? And it's just the culture that they're in, and that's what they do. And I suspect that if somebody played on a basketball team and they were traded to five or six teams, that that's not necessarily a picnic. And I like to equate all of that to what happens in the workspace, you know, in the corporate workspace. We experience some of that too. The problem is that obviously we're not making millions of dollars like some of these other folk. But I think the mindset of these individuals is basically the same. They got fired on Monday and Tuesday. They said, you know, I'm ready to jump into somebody else. I'm just going to start interviewing with other people. It's because they are at a mindset saying, I will just do what I can to leave the team that I was with better, hopefully. And if not, you know, some other team will pick me up and I'll probably be able to, you know, dive into their culture and hopefully things will work out. So I will always just encourage people to really think through when they are, you know, in a situation where they feel like they can't do anything else and the world is coming to an end. Take a moment and take a brief breath. Take that deep breath and then mentally start thinking through what are my possibilities? There are always possibilities. I always tell people, you know what? You have so much power, you just need to start taking it and investing in you. And part of that is having the mental capacity to believe that you can do anything you want so long as you sit down and write a plan.

Jeanne 18:51

Absolutely.

– Why investing in yourself is the best career move

Jeanne 18:52

And you're not saying that everybody should stop and be an entrepreneur and not at all. Not at all. You can yeah, do something on their own. You're just saying find the right thing.

John Reaves 19:02

And here's the thing: even if you're in one of those situations where you want to be a corporate citizen for the rest of your life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But just know that there are limitations. That corporate organization is not necessarily going to be as vested in yourselves than you need to be. And one of my favorite stories, and not one of my favorite stories, is when people talk about learning. When a company doesn't send them to a training conference or if they don't want to pay for a course and so forth, you know, people get upset. Well, a lot of us out here will say, Well, why can't you just pay for it yourself, get the certification or whatever it is you're trying to get from that, and build on whatever you already have. That's a piece that I also would like to provide advice to folk, especially when you feel like you're stuck or you are in the middle of jobs and so forth. Learning is probably one of the biggest things you can do for yourself, whether it is taking a course, picking up a book, all the above. Learning can free you. It can also liberate you to really explore other avenues that you probably didn't think was possible. And when I also think about when I um was laid off for my last job, that's exactly what I did in the midst of you know, thinking about what I wanted my next steps to be. I took a class. And I mean, people were like, what? But that's a lot of that is simply because I love to learn. I don't necessarily need to go get a new degree or even a certification. But if you find, you know, whether it's a new book or some type of um, you know, course that's um fun, I'm always gonna be um ready to um sign up for. In fact, you know, one of the things that I do, and you probably wonder how I have time to do this, I try to read a book every week of something. You know, most books are not very long, probably a few hundred pages. But I really believe that learning has to be your main promotion. If you really want to get ahead, if you really want to be excited about life and making strides and making a difference in other people's lives, you have to be a lifelong learner. And that can be in any space. I don't care what job you're doing. You could always do more by picking up a book or even YouTube. I mean, if that's your thing, whatever your thing is, be intentional about learning and improving yourself. That will make a difference, and you will feel better about your overall outcome and your productivity.

Jeanne 21:36

Well, yeah, nowadays there's this all these other learning labs online, like Udemy. I can't, I don't even know if I'm saying it right, but they'll sell a course for like $30. And it'll be a really good course that somebody's put together, and it'll teach you how to prepare for network installation or AI. What is AI? How do you use AI? You know, all of these things. And what people don't realize is when they don't invest in themselves is that when they go into a company, when the companies are talking about do they need to downsize, they are looking at skills and people sitting there with no skills and haven't, you know, learned anything for the past 10 years sitting there, they're the ones that aren't of high value. And I'm not saying people aren't of high value, but that's that's where the corporations are focused on people that are getting those skills and maintaining them. And then, like you said, when you get those, then you feel better about yourself.

John Reaves 22:33

You do. And for me, when I think about all of the amazing opportunities to learn out there, it's it's pretty it's pretty astounding. I mean, YouTube in itself is an amazing tool. I just think about, you know, early in my career where I had to run to the library or call a friend and so forth because of something I wanted to get some advice on and so forth. Well, you don't have to do that anymore. You can just get in front of the computer. And if the and if I don't know, your AI friends or your internet doesn't necessarily have an answer, you can turn on YouTube and somebody has talked about it. And I love that. And again, you kind of have to take all of these different vehicles and vet them, of course. But I think again, no one should ever be complaining about I don't have the money to learn because it's out here. And in a lot of instances, so long as you're not on some type of um in a situation where you don't have access to things, it's typically can be free.

Jeanne 23:34

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, YouTube is a big thing for me. I don't really watch TV that much. Oh well, what the heck? Yeah, I do watch it, but I I I have specific things that I watch. And so, but YouTube is kind of like what I keep on a lot because I go looking for skills in sewing and in music. Like, how do you play that chord and how do you transition to this chord? Yeah, so that's I totally agree with what you're saying, and you're spot on totally. Okay, so a lot of driven people secretly measure themselves against titles and org charts. So, how do you separate identity from position? We talked around it a little bit. I I think you have more insight.

– Separating your identity from your job title

John Reaves 24:18

I do. And I think when you again stop allowing people to validate you based on what your position is or, you know, who you know and so forth, you're gonna see a difference. And, you know, my case in point is, and it's just kind of funny, um, you know, for years I thought I was doing everything right. I was working hard, I was earning all of these intros, and still I still felt stuck. I mean, it felt like I was always waiting to be noticed, waiting to be chosen. And that's when I realized, and that's when I, you know, will really re-emphasize here. I was tying my worth to someone else's decision. And that's typically, I think, the rut that a lot of folk get in. They're still waiting in line for their turn versus saying, I don't need to wait in line anymore. My turn can be a lot of different things now. It doesn't necessarily have to be the title, it doesn't have to be getting a promotion at my job. It could be doing such things as volunteer work and getting fulfillment from that. It could be, you know, raising your kids to be productive, you know, citizens. It could be a whole lot of different things. It doesn't necessarily have to be validated solely in a work climate. And I think we all run into sort of that trap thinking if we don't have a certain title that the world's gonna come to an end and no one's gonna look at us differently. And you do have those circles that are looking at you based on your title and your position. But most of us could care less. Most of us are more interested in. In fact, when I go to dinner parties, the last thing I want to talk about is work. I want to talk about things, you know, what matters to you? Where have you traveled to? You know, what are you interested in? You know, none of this, I was working on a an Excel spreadsheet or I was doing a PowerPoint. I could care less about that. I don't want to hear about that in a works, in a um, you know, a cocktail or dinner setting. Now, there are people that will say, especially if you're networking, you have to be able to do that. It just depends. But I think at the end of the day, when you start to focus on, I call it the things that really matter, especially when it comes to work, I think you will feel much better when you go into a climate and let's just say it's really volatile. When you're thinking about so many of the other things that you give and that you provide value to, the work stuff doesn't become that big of a deal. And again, I'm the last person to tell someone, you just go quit your job and figure it out. Absolutely not. What I'm saying is I think you need to stop expecting all of this crazy stuff to happen to you at work and start thinking about the internal building, which will inform what you do at work, and you will be a better corporate citizen and you will be able to show up better at work. And most importantly, others will see your light and want to shine like you.

Jeanne 27:23

Oh, that's absolutely great advice. It kind of goes into high-pressure environments. We've talked about this before, but people that are trying to climb and get those titles, and you're so funny when you say nobody wants to sit around and talk about Excel spreadsheets. I totally get that. But there is a lot of cutthroat competition. And so, how do you stay competitive and grow professionally without falling into the trap? Because I've seen people climb on the shoulders of other people and take credit for other things, that things that other people have done just to get a promotion and you're just looking at it and like, you can't really have done that. Did you really do that?

John Reaves 28:04

Yeah,

– Integrity when no one is watching

John Reaves 28:05

and and it is a lot of that out there. In fact, um, you know, I've had a number of jobs where people, you know, went out of the way to, you know, undercut you or be derogatory, or worse, you know, lie and cheat. In fact, I'll have to tell you a funny quick story.

Jeanne 28:22

Okay.

John Reaves 28:22

I was listening to the radio station, I guess it was a week ago, and one of the um hosts of one of the more popular reality shows was on was on the um radio. And for me, it was a wonderful interview. In fact, they were just doing a really good job of bouncing off ideas off of one another until the host of the um reality show stated that his show mirrors what really happens in the workplace where you have to basically lie, cheat, and be deceiving.

Jeanne 28:55

What is that show, Survivor?

John Reaves 28:58

Well, I don't want to be sued, and I don't want to say, but let's just say, yeah, so something like that. I was stunned, not because there wasn't some validity to what he said, but I could just took a step back and said, Do you really have to lie, cheat, and steal in the workplace? Yes, you probably have to do that on a reality show because they're trying to get ratings and they're trying to get an audience excited. But those folk like myself in the workplace, we don't necessarily want that type of excitement in five. Yeah, exactly. I think I can do without that.

Jeanne 29:32

Yeah, absolutely.

John Reaves 29:33

And you asked the question, do you have to do that? And in some environments, they cultivate that. They cultivate walking over and underwater so forth. But here's the thing: once you get to sort of the top of that um totem pole, you have the title, you basically cut and bruised everybody along where you got some cuts and bruises too. Then what? What happens then? Do you go to the next step? Do you start shooting people? Do you start throwing people off a mountain? I mean, and and that's the reality. You don't really think about how far are you willing to go. And that's why one of the things that I will tell you that I've always um believed that's been sort of a a badge of honor that I've worn in the workplace is my level of integrity. And, you know, I talk about this in my book, integrity, when no one is watching. I cannot overemphasize to you, so many people can't say the same thing. And it's so funny when I think about one of the examples in my book that I talk about, um, I was working for one of these firms, and the person asked me to shred all of these documents. And I knew clearly that that was a problem. So I promptly went to my manager and said, Is this something I should do? And, you know, he kind of was like, Well, if you don't want to work on a project, that's okay. And I said, Well, I would prefer to not work on a project where I possibly am compromising myself as well as the company all in the process. So I did not work on that project anymore. And ultimately, the um company that was undertaking these practices was audited and paid a significant fine because of those actions. But the thing that never went through my mind is, oh my God, I'm not gonna have a job, I'm gonna get fired. I was just thinking about does this make sense? Do I really want to be able to sleep at night because of these behaviors? And I don't think a lot of professionals think about that until they're in that type of situation. And a lot of professionals probably would have proceeded and shredded those arguments and not really thought about it and thought, well, okay, maybe, maybe I'll get away with it, maybe it'd be okay. And they're not really thinking about the consequences. Then five or six years, you know, lying in the bear there thinking, oh my God, I probably shouldn't have done that. I don't have those types of situations. You know, you would think in my 30 plus years, I would have levels of integrity issues that may have presented itself. No, because in every instance, I can sleep at night with my decision. It may not have been the right decision, but I can sleep at night because I believe I was making the right decision based on the circumstances.

Jeanne 32:19

Yeah, that's great. And it I wish a lot more people were like you, like it in corporations today.

John Reaves 32:26

It's not easy. It isn't easy. No, it isn't. It's not easy. Because again, you can you may be in a situation where they tell you is either my way or the highway. And again, when you're thinking about your mortgage, when you're thinking about Oh, did I work at the same company with you? Am I way or the highway? Right. But but when you're thinking about how I'm going to provide for my family, you're not really necessarily thinking about integrity. Well, people like me are. And the reason why is because it's important that at the end of the day you send a message that you don't have to cheat, steal, and be deceptive in order to get ahead in the workplace. You just don't have, I don't believe you have to do that. Now, would I be a CEO if I had done some of those things? Probably not. I don't think so. Because I I really do believe that a lot of folk that are in these higher positions, they didn't have to go through those thresholds of stealing and and robbing Peter to pay part. They didn't have to do that. But there are those that have. And I think there are consequences associated with it. Because just like you, you know, cheated and lied, guess what? The person that's right behind you can do the same thing and may take your road down the line. And those are things that we just don't think about. It really is a domino effect, you know. That whole thing about, you know, do unto others as they do unto you. And if you find yourself doing crazy stuff, it will come back to you. May not happen on Monday, but it will eventually occur. And it's gonna be one of those situations where you're not thinking about it. Oh my God, I can't believe that this is happening. Well, think about what you did a few years ago to that person.

Jeanne 34:11

Absolutely. And just think about it like this. It's if you look at it as a criminal lawyer would do if you went to trial. Did you do this? Did you shred those papers? You know, and then you say, Yeah, but he told me to, and then he was my boss. And then he's like, Well, he just I didn't tell you that at all. I mean, it's you have to live with yourself, just like I tell my kids, you can't get away from yourself. You are gonna be with yourself for the rest of your life. If you don't like yourself, then you're gonna have a hard time in this life.

John Reaves 34:45

Well, you are, and I think about a lot of books that are out there that are, you know, encouraging people to, you know, sort of unpilleting on you in a different way for us in the workplace, for us, you know, fighting to get that promotion. This is what you do, this is how you do it. And I really wanted the real promotion to take a different span. I really wanted them, anyone that reads this book, to have clarity about their purpose and ownership of their development. You know, I want the reader to stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing who they are becoming. And I gotta say, taking self-actualization and really investing in yourself is something that most of us simply don't do. You know, we're so busy running, we're so busy trying to do all of these different things, but we're not taking the time out to invest in ourselves. And that's what this book is all about your own self-reflection and trying to figure out what makes the most sense for me. Because there are a lot of things that I wrote about in the book, may not even be applicable. But I believe there's something in the book for everybody. And I really believe it's um, it really is uh call to action, it's a challenge to take ownership of how we show up, choosing positive energy over passive frustration, and then leadership over the status quo. So again, you know, when I think about all of the possibilities, when I think about all of the things that I could be doing, I am just so glad that one day I said enough and I need to do this a little bit differently.

Jeanne 36:24

Yeah. That's very admirable. So you kind of answered my last question before we transition to the game, but I I do want to say one thing. If somebody's out there listening right now and they're it's resonating with them, what is the absolute first step that they can take, the simple step to go in the right direction?

– The first step toward meaningful change

John Reaves 36:47

For me, it was taking a deep breath and sitting down and making a list of things that I want to do. Things that I I mean, I'm thinking I love to dream. One and my wife always uh is amazed because I'm one of those people that can go to sleep in like five seconds as soon as I get it.

Jeanne 37:13

Me too.

John Reaves 37:14

And a lot of it is because I'm really excited about what's gonna happen to me. You know, I love to dream about positive things, of course, about all of the different possibilities, you know. Some people may want to dream about being rich and having, you know, mini mansions and all that other sort of thing. I just dream about just, you know, really enjoying life and having fun and doing all that I can to get back to others. So I think the very, very first thing is to get in front of a mirror and take a look at yourself and start to think through what am I doing? What do I want to become? And most people will probably say, That's that's nothing, that's easy. It's not. When you start doing full self-reflection, when you do meaningful self-reflection, thinking about what have I done for somebody else today, what have I done for myself? And then you take a step back and say, Wow, I've lost so much time. And you have. And you can get some of that time back by really sitting down and being intentional about how you move forward.

Jeanne 38:28

I like that. I'm gonna do that myself because I I do I do fall asleep really fast, but there are some times when you just need to like reset again, just go back and reset, even though you think you're going in the right direction. I think a lot of those things you said today helps people reflect and reset themselves. So I'm gonna take that deep breath and then look at the things I want to do. I'm already doing a lot of fun things, but there may be other things. Get rid of some of the things I don't like.

John Reaves 38:59

Reset is just an opportunity to take a moment and do it differently. And I'm not really sure why that's such a bad word in a lot of people's um vocabulary, but regrouping is what we all should be doing. And when I think about politics, what I am absolutely not a politician. When I hear when I hear people that say things, uh, for instance, that a politician has to, you know, be on a straight and narrow, and they literally have to, if they say one thing, they have to follow it through, even if it's wrong. And my response is I want my politicians to be nuanced. I want them to be in a situation where they may have looked at a situation and then after they've learned and gained more information, they took a different position based on the new information they had. I don't want them to always feel like it got to be this way or the highway. And the problem with a lot of us is that we've started these projects and we feel like if we don't see them through, that the world's gonna come to an end. I'm the first one to tell you that that project that you're working on, the earlier you stop it, especially if it's not going the direction that you wanted to go in, the cheaper it will be in the long term.

Jeanne 40:16

Right. Well, this has been fabulous. I love talking to you. You're a really interesting person and very smart person.

John Reaves 40:23

So Well, the pleasure is all mine. You've been amazing. You've been an absolutely um fun to interact with, and I'm sure this won't be the last time.

Jeanne 40:31

Yeah,

– Two Truths and a Lie: shocking workplace stories and unexpected kindness

Jeanne 40:32

well, we're gonna go play the game though. Yeah, we're transitioning. So, for those listening, here's the way it works. John has given me three headlines about his life, so we can dig in a little bit deeper on him personally, and we're gonna read those headlines. I'm gonna guess which one I think two of them are true, one of them is a lie. I'm gonna guess which one I think is a lie or the twisted truth. Then he's gonna walk us through each of those stories, and then at the end, he'll reveal it to us. This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts. Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different. Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story. And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech. Simple socket print, the lightweight blazing fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue. With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print sequence, and automatic base 64 decoding all without needing print driver installs. If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, SimpleSocket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work. Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print. Thank you to our sponsors. Headline number one. I can't even read this. John once caught two senior colleagues naked in an office after hours, and it permanently changed how he fused power, risk, and leadership. It would change a lot more than that for me. Like I wouldn't want to look at them at all. So that's headline number one. Headline number two. John's college roommate won $500,000 on a lottery ticket and gave uh John $20,000 because John had given him money toward that ticket. I hope your roommate did that. And then number three, John helped a man experiencing homelessness secure a job and it redefined what success actually means to him. Well, I'm gonna guess, I was gonna guess, number two. I'm gonna guess number one because I really hope that never happened. But okay. But you're gonna tell you're gonna tell us. So tell us about story number one.

John Reaves 43:16

Okay. Story number one was about a situation where I was working like um really late one night, and I was literally kind of just rounging through the halls, and I noticed a light was on in one of these offices. So I decided to see who was still on the floor. I opened the door and was stunned at what I saw.

Jeanne 43:44

I couldn't unsee it. Ah, I know. Did you work for these people?

John Reaves 43:51

I did. One of them was my manager.

Jeanne 43:54

Okay.

John Reaves 43:55

Needless to say, it was it was pretty crazy. I Oh my God. Yeah. So let's just say when I see doors, whether they're open or closed, I don't do anything with them at work because I don't want to see what's behind the door.

Jeanne 44:11

Oh my gosh. I bet you got a lot of gifts after that.

John Reaves 44:16

Well, um, well, the good thing is it kind of resolved in cells because um both of the persons eventually end up leaving the company, but I left before them, so I don't exactly know what happened to them, but it was crazy. But that person that was my manager, let's just say, uh, never talked to me again.

Jeanne 44:36

Hey, this is like it reminds me of that Coldplay concert. Have you seen that all over YouTube, right?

John Reaves 44:44

Yeah, yeah. Well, just think about if it was during a time where people could pull out their because there were no um, I guess we did have mobile phones, but they were not at the level they are today. Could you imagine someone filming that? Oh god.

Jeanne 44:59

Oh, I wouldn't. Uh well, at least you didn't do that. Uh yeah. People are stupid when they do these things out in public and digital stuff. Yeah, you're gonna get caught. All right. Number two, how is that roommate? Was he good to you? That is so false. Oh, you did it's not supposed to tell us. Okay.

John Reaves 45:21

I am so sorry. Um, it's so easy to do. It is so easy to do, and I caught myself. Um, but um, this is one of those situations where my roommates um I don't think they would have given me five cents, not alone twenty thousand dollars. But um maybe one of them would have, um, but the other one not so much. Um, but yeah, I just thought that was fun.

Jeanne 45:43

Yeah, it is kind of fun to think about. But I was gonna guess that one at first, but you know, you were.

John Reaves 45:48

I remember, and I kind of dissuaded you on yesterday not to choose that one. But the third one, this is what I do. I uh was in a situation where I saw a homeless guy, and he didn't even ask me for money or anything, and I saw that he was reading a book, and I said, Oh, okay. And we engaged in a you know casual conversation, and I noticed that where I was parking at the time, he was always there. So I would, you know, see him and we would exchange pleasantries. And one day I said, You know what? Here's my car. How about we talk about how we can move you, you know, beyond sort of the um where you are? And his circumstances were interesting. He was working a decent job, he got laid off and got involved in drugs, lost his family, lost his house, and so forth. And he was just trying to find his way back. And he was staying at the shelter um where uh my office was located, and we just again disconnected. And, you know, every week I would actually go on my way to see him to see what was happening and so forth. And sure enough, after a period of time, he started to trust me and I created his resume. You know, I helped him to sort of get ready to interview for jobs, and he got back on track.

Jeanne 47:07

That's fantastic. That's really fantastic. And now in this day and age, you know, the more I will like to do things like that, except for there's a lot of danger that people you see all the time. There's a lot of danger in just speaking to people that you don't really know what they're doing or where they're coming from. But that was quite bold and commendable for you to do that.

John Reaves 47:28

So well, it was, but I will say that I think because I saw this person every day, it made it pretty easy for me to feel as if I'm not gonna get my head chopped off because I'm trying to be helpful. But you do have to, you know, have a level of some type of um discernment because you don't know. You don't know what you're gonna encounter. But this was one of those situations that I thought was okay. And if someone asked me the question, would I ever do that again? I absolutely wouldn't, and actually have, not necessarily to a homeless person, but I think where I get my most, I guess, pleasure or I probably am at my best when I could do something for somebody else. I believe we all have been put on this earth to do just that. I think, you know, if I get something out of it in the end, that's wonderful and fine. But it's all about what can I do to help somebody else.

Jeanne 48:23

Yeah, that's wonderful. Okay. Well, I know everybody's enjoyed, you know, hearing you and hearing about your book and all your ideas. I want to put up information on how people can contact you. You actually said that they should just go straight to your website and that you've got a lot of data out there for them to take advantage of, which I think is wonderful. I'm gonna go do that myself. And yeah, you gave me a great quote. You want to talk about that?

John Reaves 48:52

Well,

– The real promotion begins within

John Reaves 48:53

the most important promotion you will ever earn is the one no one can give you. It begins the moment you stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing your own growth. I remember sitting down and when I was writing the book, and that came to me, and I just said, where did this come from? And it really was about I've heard so many people call the workplace a war zone. And I believe that the workplace is actually a classroom. And I wrote this book, and I really hope it resonates with other people. But my biggest thing is to help people to stop chasing validation and start choosing their intention of growth. So when I think about this, I think about all of those times when I thought I was up for a promotion, I thought I was up for, you know, the bigger office in a suite. And when I start to think through, does all of those things really matter at the end of the day? Do is that what I want in my tombstone? The answer is absolutely not. I cannot tell you how many funerals that I've attended over the past, let's say, two years, and they were talking about somebody being, you know, a beast in the workplace. People could care less about that. They're more interested in what kind of person, what kind of person were you? You know, what type of contribution did you make in your community to your family? Were you present for your family? A lot of people were not, you know, and you're trying to figure out what you're gonna talk about because this person was nowhere to be found because they were so busy working. And I never wanted that to be me. And I don't want that to be the people that potentially read my book. I want them to really think about what it's gonna take to get them to make that turn and say, I do need to look at this differently.

Jeanne 50:56

Right, right. Well, that's great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. But I I want you to come back again. I hope I hope you'll promise us to do that. And then I will. For those listening, I hope this resonated with you. And if it does, reach out to John because I'm sure he's more than happy to talk with you.

John Reaves 51:14

I would. And the other thing too is in probably in the next few days, I really will be officially, I call it starting my YouTube page. And it's gonna be all about you know, doing what I can to answer questions and to talk about some of these experiences and so forth, because I think it's important that I find different mediums to have a conversation. But one of the things that I probably would call my superpower, if somebody send me an uh an email, I will respond to them pretty quickly. Oh, great. A lot of people, you know, will make you wait for two and three days and so forth. If I see it, I will respond to it. That's just how I am.

Jeanne 51:53

That's fantastic.

– Closing thoughts and smooth sailing

Jeanne 51:54

Yeah, so those listening, um, this is your Admiral of the Unexpected, and I hope you join us next week for another guest. And until then, I wish you all smooth sailing. Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real. If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew. Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck. I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected. See you on the next voyage.